Understand the importance of modern and realistic firefighter training and why the benefits are invaluable with Andy Starnes and Chris Kessinger as they discuss how the industry is bridging the gap between firefighter safety and protecting the environment.
Chris Kessinger is a Lieutenant with the City of Lebanon Division of Fire, and serves as the lead instructor and owner of Citizens First Fire Training. He holds a deep passion for his job and is driven towards keeping the blue-collar traditions alive within the fire service. In addition to being a training instructor for various departments and facilities, Chris is also an active member of the Central Ohio FOOLS chapter.
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00:00:02:22 - 00:00:16:06
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
There has to be a way to do it, but we have to get involved. Honestly, we have to get off our butts. We have to get off keyboards. We actually have to put work into it. It's easy to complain. It's easy to gripe. It's easy to do that changes and easy change takes work.
00:00:22:14 - 00:00:45:03
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Welcome to Rapid Fire Podcast, hosted by Fire-Dex & dedicated to sharing best practices and lessons learned in hopes of making firefighting a little bit safer. I'm your host, Battalion Chief Andy Starnes. We have a special guest star today, Chris Kessinger from Citizens First Fire Training. And I'm really excited to talk to someone who I feel I have a lot of in common with.
00:00:45:03 - 00:01:04:00
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Even though I've never met him personally, I've watched his work and I respect what he's doing and the the work ethic behind it. And I really look forward to sharing this message. With everyone who listens today. And hopefully you're able to listen to this on your way to work or while you're working out or however and share it with someone.
00:01:04:01 - 00:01:16:02
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So, Chris, welcome and please introduce yourself. Tell everyone a little bit about yourself. You know, where you're from, who you work for, and what's what are you passionate about and what are you doing about it? Share that with us, please, sir.
00:01:17:03 - 00:01:53:15
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Absolutely. I just want to thank you for having me on. Long time fan watch everything you do and love what you're doing for fire service. Educating people. Again, I'm Chris Kessinger. I run Citizens First Fire Training. We are a group of instructors, mainly based out of Ohio. But we have other candidates throughout the country. And our mission that we have for our training side is realistic training to fill the gap, inexperience gap that members are getting to better serve the fire service and mainly to reduce the civilian fire fatalities that we're having in this country.
00:01:53:15 - 00:02:23:23
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And we want to make a difference, and we want to bring that passion back. We want to ignite the passion that's in training and being able to get people involved in the departments. We've been in operation since 2019. In addition to our training side, we actually have a tool and equipment sales side and all the proceeds from that go to help injured and fallen firefighters and their families throughout the U.S. We donate to falls, chapters, locals, different fire associations throughout the country.
00:02:24:17 - 00:02:46:10
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Tools, equipment and training passes that they are able to raffle off. And 100% of the proceeds go directly to that firefighters family and them to be able to help them. Last year we were able to donate $23,000. This year we're trying to double that and we want be over $40,000 we don't take paychecks from the tool and equipment side.
00:02:46:15 - 00:02:53:19
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
I still work full time and that's what pays my bills. Everything from the business gets put back into the business and our charity bills.
00:02:54:18 - 00:03:15:29
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
That is phenomenal. And Chris, one of the many things I admired about you is watching when y'all have done fundraisers and knowing that without proclaim that from the streets that you're doing the right thing and a lot of people don't do that. So one plug you guys as much as I can because you're doing a good work into any way we can support you guys and the financial end of it.
00:03:16:09 - 00:03:36:17
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
I'm you can count my company and as I hope you know, but the big thing I'd love to hear from you as you just shared is, you know, you promote realistic fire training and the mission behind it to reduce civilian fire fatalities is there a back story or is there a starting point from you where this all began?
00:03:36:17 - 00:03:48:04
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Before we get into realistic fire training, is there something that there was an impetus or a point that got you into that? Or tell us a little bit about how you got started, maybe our.
00:03:48:12 - 00:04:21:22
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Main goal is we started noticing a trend. We pay attention. The US Fire Administration, we know fires were down, but for some reason the deaths continued to climb for civilian fire fatalities here in the US. And there's a big disconnect. We noticed training going through different manuals different academies, stuff like that, tactics that were taught that weren't realistic, that was creating training scars, that there was creating a huge gap in perform since coming out of the academy, what the expectations were on the street for them.
00:04:22:15 - 00:04:58:22
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And we wanted to see a way to be able to figure out the best fix that. And the only way that we've been able to do that in what has been successful for us has been realistic training. It first started off at the department that I worked for and it was just phone call to our trainings. We had acquired structures and we got at least six to eight a year and we started doing realistic training in those realistic live fire, fully extinguishing the fires that we'd build, moving to another room, and then we'd light a fire off there, getting realistic condition, searching, having the house fully furnished and we saw performance change.
00:04:59:08 - 00:05:20:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
The guys were able to form better, and that was ending in better results on our real fires from there. When the business came up, we started doing that. The group of instructors were from all over the state, and we've started doing that in our home academies. Any colleges that we work for and stuff like that, and we're seeing what the effects are.
00:05:21:09 - 00:05:46:13
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We've already had grabs from people that have attended our classes, and it's been great the performance that they've been able to take back, give to their departments and change the culture that they have as a more aggressive, more competent in performance based group. It's been amazing and it's just it's been really rewarding for us to be able to do that and being able to hear the success stories that have come from it.
00:05:47:24 - 00:06:08:23
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
It just builds your passion that you have for it. It gives you that I'm doing the right thing, we're making a difference and be able to continue to fight because I mean, it's a huge sacrifice. The amount of time that you put into building a class, prepping for that class, traveling to the class and executing all with working full time that we're gone away so much.
00:06:08:23 - 00:06:31:08
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And it's all the behind the scenes stuff that people don't see. You may have an hour or two PowerPoint class, but you don't know the one to three weeks that went into building just that class or changing it and being able to hear the success stories that are coming from our classes on a regular basis is really, really helped feed that passion.
00:06:31:08 - 00:06:31:18
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Again.
00:06:33:19 - 00:06:54:28
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Well said. And I'd like to add to that based on some things you mentioned that really hit home for me, you said you kept seeing training scholars. A friend I recently met in person, I knew him online told me, he corrected me, walked up and he said, Hey, you said they're training scars. I said, they're not scars. I said, What do you mean?
00:06:55:11 - 00:07:17:26
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
He said, A scar means you healed and you've learned from it. He said, The fire department has training wounds. We're still bleeding and I thought, wow, he's right. We are we are actively bleeding and we're not controlling the bleeding when it comes to some of these unrealistic type things that we're having our firefighters do in training to not prepare them for the actual fight.
00:07:18:00 - 00:07:46:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And so I admire that, that you're doing more realistic training than I'd think firefighters who rely solely on their department to meet or exceed their level of training. We're going to find themselves falling short in many cases because the department can't financially or timewise provide it based on all the different things the departments are asked to do. So these guys and gals that are seeking out realistic training from you and from other people are going to find that they're going to be better and you're going to have those success stories.
00:07:47:03 - 00:08:09:26
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
The thing that you also said that I'd like for you to talk about a little bit more is you said you saw a need a gap of why realistic training is needed. Give me some examples of how you've taken what was in the textbook where that gap was Give me some examples, whether it's search, whether it's size, whether it's fire tech, whatever it is in your classes and how you bridge that gap.
00:08:10:02 - 00:08:20:01
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And I'm sure you continually refine things and how that's working for you and how that's working for the student. Help me out with that, if you would, and our listeners, because I think this would be valuable for them.
00:08:21:00 - 00:08:37:12
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Absolutely. I mean, we can start off talking with Search. When I came into the fire service in 2004, I was taught to hold the ankle of the person in front of me. We went one direction and we stayed on the train. If we let go of the boot in front of us, we were dead, we were going to die.
00:08:38:03 - 00:09:29:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
That's what we were taught. You're looking back not a single thing got searched in that house when we went through or the training building because the training buildings were empty, concrete rooms which aren't realistic even our vacant commercial structures, vacant residential structures, they're still furnished, there's still stuff inside, there's still obstacles, there's different flooring. So being able to drag a rescue, Randi, on a polished concrete floor does nothing to prep you for a 350 to 400lb. victim that has no clothes on as burnt skin thermal heat damage that has taken to him in being able to drag them with one to two people out over hardwood carpet rugs, piles of clothes and other debris that
00:09:29:21 - 00:10:06:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
you find in your house that one person can search a ten by ten to 12 by 12 bedroom by themselves and 30 seconds and effectively search that compared to it would take three to 5 minutes for two people to search a burn room and they only search the outer perimeters so being able to objectively look back at what the books are showing, what the academies were teaching, what I was taught, and then being able to see that when we got into our first fires, that that's not how it is.
00:10:08:01 - 00:10:37:22
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We're not being set up for success. Our departments are having to on top of their high load of what all we have to do as a department, they're having to try to bridge that gap themselves and financially most department budgets can't do that. The first thing that gets cut when there's tight budgets is the training budget. That is the first thing to be sacrificed, and long term, that kills departments in.
00:10:38:09 - 00:10:43:11
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
What is the lowest budget I've found in every department I visit is often the training budget, too.
00:10:44:12 - 00:11:06:12
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Absolutely. And it's the first one that they'll trim from. They need a new buggy, they need something else they're going to pay for a new software. Let's cut it out of the training budget, those shortened academies and everything else, because they have a need that they have to do to run the entire department. But the department training budget is usually the first thing to be sacrificed.
00:11:07:13 - 00:11:32:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So that's a huge reason that why we promote so many outside trainings promoting the Fools chapters that do low to no cost trainings throughout the country because you're able to fill that gap outside of your department. And the biggest thing that we're trying to educate people in the fire service on is when you go to a training, even if you have to pay for it out of your own pocket, don't look at as an expense.
00:11:33:09 - 00:11:55:16
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
It's an investment in your career. It doesn't matter if you're career part time or volunteer it's still an investment in your career. It could potentially save your life, the life of one of your family members or one of your crew members. And you have to look at it as you're investing, just like you put preventative maintenance in your vehicle to keep it running.
00:11:56:02 - 00:12:17:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
You have to do the same thing for your career, your education, your experience. We're not go into as many fires as they did back in the war days. So how we fill that gap is through training and realistic training. Bridges a lot of gaps to build experience, to give you something to be able to recall and go back on well.
00:12:17:05 - 00:12:38:03
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So and I think one of the things you said I really like is it's an investment, but I'd like to say it's an investment in your life because you said it could save your life. You know, it is a career we have, don't get me wrong. But how many careers do you know of that? If you mess up, you're going to die or you're going to take somebody else's life.
00:12:38:03 - 00:12:54:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So I echo what you say, and I think that's well said, that it is an investment. Now, make sure you get your wife's permission or spouse's permission before you go spend said money. Ladies and gentlemen, don't just walk in the door and say, well, I'm going to such and such conference and I'm spending the money we had planned.
00:12:54:06 - 00:13:13:15
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
I want to go to Disney World good luck with that effort. I don't want to hear you call me and try to get me to get you out of that trouble. But it's a unified command system, ladies and gentlemen. You have to make those decisions together. So but I like that. One of the things you said, too, was about when you went through recruit school and training, you know, you had the hand to the boot.
00:13:13:18 - 00:13:38:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We're calling in the search train or choo choo train search methodology. We were taught and unfortunately and after a review of a couple of textbooks, there's still that in there. They're still showing a firefighter swinging a tool out into the room with the sharp end of the tool to find a victim. I don't understand why that is. I think that's something we can talk about at the end when we talk about how we overcome certain things.
00:13:38:26 - 00:13:57:12
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
But one of the things I like to hear is let me just take one example. I know you do you teach in your search, you teach when you locate a crib, how you remove that victim from the crib. And this may sound simple to a lot of us, but this is not simple in the way that the baby or the infant is removed from the crib.
00:13:57:21 - 00:14:01:17
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Something as simple as you teach a crib dump. right. Is that correct?
00:14:02:03 - 00:14:02:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Yes, sir.
00:14:02:27 - 00:14:15:25
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
OK, I tell him why that's important, why that's realistic and why we don't just reach in there and stand up with said infant or child and that environment help help our help our listeners out with that.
00:14:17:06 - 00:14:35:07
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Our natural reflex. If we're standing up and we find a crib, we're going to be able to reach down in that crib. And we're looking around. And if we find a victim, our natural reflex is going to pick that baby up and bring them up. We know that crib sit on average about waist high, sometimes a little bit higher.
00:14:36:00 - 00:15:02:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We know the thermal insult that they can take in that range with a really good working fire could be a couple of hundred degrees, especially if it's hot enough trying to push us to the ground. We know scientifically that it takes the airways will start to get damage at 187 degrees Fahrenheit. That's not that hot in a fire baby airways especially closer to newborn or even more sensitive.
00:15:03:04 - 00:15:20:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
It could only be a couple of breaths with that temperature range that could be the difference in them living and dying. So what we do is we teach people when they find a crib because we should be if we're searching in a smoky environment down in the field position, tripod position is to bring that crib down on your legs.
00:15:21:10 - 00:15:53:17
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
That does a couple of things. That shifts the potential baby or the baby that's in there down into the cleaner air but it's also against you. That mattress is the same length that your left arm in your right arm can reach out and be able to feel everything that's inside that crib. And we find that baby when it's don't we're able to bring them over into a back position, keeping them in the lowest, cleanest air possible don't let that passive air exchange, if they're still breathing, be able to take place in the best environment until we get them out.
00:15:54:05 - 00:16:18:19
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So we're taking away that reflex of standing up and putting that unnecessary thermal insult on the baby and giving them the best chance of survival. It's the same way that we teach adult drags every drag that we teach. Somebody is keeping that airway down in that cleanness air, being able to keep that head down that way, if there is passed the air exchange, we're giving the victims the best possible chance of surviving.
00:16:20:00 - 00:16:40:15
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Awesome. And the thing that I want to emphasize, and that is we teach firefighters to search for mannequins and whatever environment they set up for Basil. Abraham said it best. No one ever grabs the mannequin and says, Hey, are you OK? No one thinks about the condition of the mannequin. It's a mannequin. You know, if it's a person, they treat it differently.
00:16:40:15 - 00:17:02:17
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And like you said, I'm going to treat this person differently. I want to get their airway down. I want to carry them differently. And I like to say, if it hurt you as a firefighter to go down the hallway in PPE, what do you think you're doing to a victim if you have to come back that direction? So it's encouraging to hear that you're teaching not checklists, but thinking critically, thinking firefighters.
00:17:02:25 - 00:17:32:01
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We focus on skill sets, but without understanding the environment and what that's doing to that victim. I hear firefighters all the time. Well, I didn't open the nozzle because it wasn't that hot. Really. What do you think, Mrs. Smith, or that child thinks about your subjective definition of heat? Right. So moving from search, talk about the value in fully extinguishing the fire versus the following phrases that many of us have heard in training.
00:17:32:13 - 00:17:45:05
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
All right, you're ready. OK, we're going to enter the building and I'm going to tell you to open and close the nozzle. And then when we get to the fire room, I want you to open it up briefly, but don't put my fire out. How many times have you heard that a lot?
00:17:45:05 - 00:17:45:25
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Should we do this?
00:17:48:00 - 00:17:49:09
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Bob, help us out.
00:17:49:09 - 00:18:22:23
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We're starting to realize when recruits came off the street and we've been taught the pencil and everything else in fires they were actually doing it on real fires or minor duty deaths, severe injuries and investigative reports that have come from that. How many kids were too scared to open that nozzle when the roof flashed? We have to teach firefighters to be able to think finance woman has full permission to be able to open that nozzle when he feels that it's necessary and flow until it is a cool environment.
00:18:24:07 - 00:18:51:16
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We can flow on smoke, we kill the fire, we prevent the flash over and we prevent that training wound of penciling that fire and just getting the steam conversion and it's flaring back up by fully extinguishing it. We flow GPMs, we flow water, and we fully extinguish it. And I'll have a burn room set up on the opposite side that all light as I rebuilt that other one just to prevent that from happening.
00:18:52:26 - 00:19:14:12
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We want to give them the ability to think, to be able to feel in not be so reliant on somebody to tell them. Because if that officer is dragging a victim out, that officer set on a choke point or the senior man that's running with that crew that nozzle then may be able to make the difference in that room, flashing it, not flashing or giving the victim the best chance.
00:19:14:12 - 00:19:28:28
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And they need to be able to think and operate independently to make those decisions. We have to empower them to make those decisions and we have to give them the ability and the experience through training to feel confident in making those decisions.
00:19:31:01 - 00:19:53:20
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
That is awesome. There's a couple things I want to reiterate to everyone who just heard that my man hit on the words penciling OK? And those of you who may not be aware, penciling has been disproven in three different research studies as an ineffective or inadequate cooling methodology. And we stole that technique from our brothers and sisters overseas and don't even do it correctly.
00:19:54:12 - 00:20:12:20
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So when he talks about realistic fire training, the only reason the US Fire Service adopted penciling was it didn't put the fire out. It made it easier on the instructors. It was a way for them to maintain their thermal balance and still not put the fire out. So the ignition officer didn't take a beating when they had to re like the fire.
00:20:12:29 - 00:20:33:21
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So it's extremely encouraging to hear that you're teaching proper suppression techniques for cooling smoke, which is where the heat coming and you're fully extinguishing the fire. I met department recently that they load eight pallets in their burn room, and when they attack the fire, they make them put it all the way out. And it's really hard on their live burn instructors, but they plan for it.
00:20:34:14 - 00:20:55:21
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And as you said, they move to a different room or they clean out. They have a hot wash and they reset. But what you're doing, Chris, by doing that is is reinforcing good habits. And that's the key is I heard it from Erin Fields who said I went through my recruit school training. He said I was the best pilot extinguishing that cinder block burn building firefighter you ever seen.
00:20:56:01 - 00:21:29:26
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And so I went into a real fire and those things didn't work for us. Those of us who were exposed, real firefighters, those of us who experienced real fire just in a false sense or create assurance in false sense, firefighters have no property in the firefighters do have these what I call half sits. Right. Doing these what I call the environment doesn't have the risk I'm close to of an environment that doesn't actually when you talk about people, what they're going to face, especially when you talk about visibility, you know, you know, the whole concept of being able to see in a fire you don't see much if at all.
00:21:30:17 - 00:21:53:27
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So the fact that we have to explain that to people and that, you know, than we talk about fake smoke and the hazards of teaching people and that in many cases it goes down several different rabbit holes. But the best thing that I heard you say in here that I loved was we have to empower firefighters with training and knowledge so they can think.
00:21:54:25 - 00:22:22:09
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And you said it in the beginning, people scared to open the nozzle for whatever reason. That's beautiful, man. We've got to create a intelligently aggressive generation that makes decisions based on knowledge, understanding and skills. So you're doing that. So tell me more about when you've done these classes and taught your truck engine classes and you have discussions with the students and they have those aha moments.
00:22:23:00 - 00:22:31:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Tell me some brief glimpses of the success stories and what that's like how that affects you and how that keeps you going, if you will.
00:22:31:14 - 00:23:11:01
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
After our last engine and truck academy, this was in an acquired structure over three days. We flowed over 600,000 gallons of water into an acquired structure. We taught them to not only flow water, but to flow a lot of water and to kill the fire in potential flashover and everything else that happens. But that's how we're able to make the environment better is by flowing copious amounts water to be able to aggressively communicate, to be able to think and to give them the why of what we were doing, not just explaining this is what the book says that you need to do to be able to pass a test, but this is what's working.
00:23:11:01 - 00:23:38:26
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
These are the statistics that are coming out from firefighter rescue survey that are coming out from other trusted, scientifically proven fields of what we are doing right, what we're doing wrong, and how we overcome it by giving them the why they're able to take it back to their department. They're able to share it with their shift, they're able to share it with their chief officers, and they're able to make change at that small company level that turns into a shift level.
00:23:38:26 - 00:24:01:26
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
That turns into a department level in the best thing that we've had is being able to be invited back to departments not only by their members but by their chiefs and getting their chiefs involved in the training. We had multiple chief officers that came out to our most recent engine and truck academy, and they were invited out to come out and see what their guys are doing to take part in it.
00:24:02:06 - 00:24:32:04
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And there was no additional charge. There's nothing like that is I wanted to involve the leadership so they were able to effect change. They're able to get that support from such a high level and that chief officers are starting to pay attention to get involved and ask questions that chief officers at every level were involved and talking to us as instructors, seeing how their guys were doing, thanking everybody they were doing and mentioning the differences since the last time we were down that they've seen in their department.
00:24:32:25 - 00:24:51:22
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And that is a huge motivator every time I get a message, I get a text or something like that. I send it out to every instructor involved because I want them to see that. I want them to be proud of the work that they've done to be able to execute a change, to make a difference in somebody's career and to inspire somebody.
00:24:51:22 - 00:25:14:21
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Again, it's easy to lose motivation, especially as younger members in the department that don't know any better. When you're surrounded by people that accept mediocrity, that are OK with the status quo and that are more focused on sitting back, staying out of shape and watching what's on TV, instead of putting the sweat equity and investing into the younger guys, investing in their career.
00:25:15:05 - 00:25:42:04
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And to be able to inspire that, to be able to see the motivation and to be able to see people thanking us for just spreading what we love is huge. That is able to see that change, to see that spark ignite in people, and to see people go back after training and start posting pictures of them doing their own trainings, throwing ladders, being able to work on victim drags and to do the research themselves.
00:25:42:04 - 00:26:08:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Because everything that we teach, we give them the source of where it came from, and that's for them to be able to go back and fully read and vet that source, to be able to get the full information that they put out because they learn more from that. We didn't invent anything that we're teaching. We're passing on what has been taught to us, what we've seen work through experience on the job, and to be able to give them resources to go back.
00:26:08:05 - 00:26:40:28
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And that gives them the ammunition to be able to say, this is where this is coming from. It's been proven, it's worked. I think we should try it. And to be able to get that institute in their departments to start seeing change to start seeing departments making grab successful grabs at that is huge because the things that an instructor can teach or to a student can take back to their department and teach another member of their department that can save or has saved somebody's life, you can't put a value on that.
00:26:43:13 - 00:26:59:03
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
What you're doing there is you're closing the training wound. It becomes the scar. They heal and they learn and they turn around and turn it into growth right? Through hardship comes growth in many cases. So one of the things I want to share with our listeners that you just I don't know if you just realized what you did.
00:26:59:13 - 00:27:27:27
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Did you just created or shared a roadmap for change? You're ready. You said there's a big difference between being certified and something. And I like to say there's a big difference being certified versus qualified or state qualification or certification versus experientially relevant. I know what I'm doing and being able to think that you said you give them data driven information, you give them the why so they can take it back and make the change individually at the company level, the shift level and the department level.
00:27:27:27 - 00:27:53:04
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And then you invite leadership to come in and witness it and you share the sources. And then when you have all this stuff and things, good things happen. You share the successes with your instructors, with airborne charges, their batteries to keep them motivated, not only to keep doing what they're doing, but you know this well. If you've been in the fire service like I have to keep you motivated at your own department.
00:27:53:28 - 00:28:22:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
What you just shared could be a class right here. The Roadmap to change. That's wonderful stuff. And one of the things I think we should take from this is how to firefighters who may be in a difficult situation with the restrictions upon their department, whether it's budget whether it's EPA restrictions in some cases in certain cities, how can they overcome some of those obstacles or restrictions to have more realistic fire training within their own organization?
00:28:22:24 - 00:28:29:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We know we can go outside and get it, but how can I do that in my own department? And what are some fixes we can offer.
00:28:31:12 - 00:29:02:14
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
I fully understand some of the limitations. Some cities you can't burn in, but there are different ways that we've been able to get around and we've worked with that is we use a lot of life smoke training with live smoke barrel system, stuff like that that are burning on the outside of structures. And we've been able to use live smoke in the city where they would not allow live fire because the fires on the outside of a structure, we're able to use live smoke and create those conditions.
00:29:03:27 - 00:29:44:00
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Every firefighter that's gone through the academy, the flashover chamber and stuff like that's been able to be exposed to heat. But when you get live turbulence, smoke, that has a different feel to it. It changes the training. It's different than theatrical smoke. It behaves differently. There is heat to it, there's velocity to it. Things that you can't just replicate in a sterile training building that we've been able to do successfully throughout the country to bridge that gap and be able to bring it in another way is to be able to bring in vetted outside training agencies bring them in.
00:29:44:29 - 00:30:04:17
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Sometimes your department, your training department, they don't have all the resources and stuff like that, that you're able to facilitate everything but you can bring people in, there can be consultants, there's ways to help you, ways to get resources that are out there that can help you on a small level to be able to do acquired structures in your community.
00:30:05:21 - 00:30:36:29
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Typically, departments will have access to county, land, bank, other stuff like that. The city may be owning a lot of structures that they're going to demolish. People are donating houses that you can set up, that you can fully furnish, and that you can use a lot of these conditions to be able to train in if you have a building on your department grounds that you can set up as a residential living area, that you can fully furnish, it's stuff that's donated from the community, donated from members your department or bought from thrift stores, stuff like that.
00:30:36:29 - 00:31:07:27
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
That you can create these conditions to be able to let people train on can be done a little cost, sometimes no cost for the initial stuff. And the dividends that it pays at the end is huge. But you have to look at the cost of what it does, but look at the reward that you're getting, look at the investment that you're getting back departments that are training a lot of departments that are aggressively training, using great tactics, everything else.
00:31:08:12 - 00:31:44:17
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
How much more buying in are you getting from your members? How much more retention are you getting from your members? What is the better performance that you're getting out of them, not just on fires but around the station and you motivate your guys use training and stuff like that. You're getting a more productive department. What's your discipline going to happen to those members when you start training a lot, when you start giving them outlets, when you start motivating them, getting them involved in positive, productive tasks, like training where you can build that passion.
00:31:45:13 - 00:32:07:11
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
I've seen discipline of members go down dramatically. When firemen get bored, they get into trouble, they get lazy, they get complacent. If we give them an outlet, we give them motivation, we give them the resources to be able to perform and do their job live up to the oath they took in to be able to get better. Their discipline goes away.
00:32:07:15 - 00:32:48:27
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We noticed the same thing in the military idle units got in trouble, units that had a very high up tempo that we're constantly training to get better in your higher tier echelons your discipline goes down dramatically and it's the same thing in the fire service. It's things that we have to be able to realize. Yes, there may be an initial upfront cost, but again, it's another investment in what's it going to save us in the long time we know the cost that it does to train equip an outfit of single fireman if we can, and get them invested in the department, get them productive in a great member of the department, and our retention goes
00:32:48:27 - 00:32:52:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
down. Are we saving that money over the long run?
00:32:52:15 - 00:33:20:23
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Even more and some of the things you said there I want people to to think about for a minute is you didn't come up with anything crazy or outside of the box that that anyone couldn't do if they just put in some effort, you know, that, hey, I went to a thrift store and got this furniture and we've waited till it was like large, large trash pickup day where we went around and picked up couches from different neighborhoods and use them.
00:33:21:17 - 00:33:45:16
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
You pointed out some things that they could do they look at the restriction and say, well, what is what is another way we can actually get live smoke in here instead of using theatrical smoke? What is a way that we can get structures like my department? Very difficult to get structures because the the actual homeowner or building owner has to sign a liability release forms basically says if we get hurt in it, they're liable so how many are going to sign that?
00:33:46:02 - 00:34:12:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So, you know, we have those restrictions as well. But if you start getting creative and looking at what is the realistic fire ground going to be like? What is my training ground look like? Where's that gap and how can I bridge that gap and get it as close as I can without harming anyone? As you said, putting all that effort to make it safe, then you're getting closer and the dividends are paid are huge.
00:34:12:17 - 00:34:34:19
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We've seen the same thing with something as simple as forcible entry. Then you can teach them gaps. It force them to move through the door in different techniques, but then suddenly put that door in front of them and zero visibility with the ability of a narrow hallway. Then things change, right? So we have to prepare them for those type of scenarios.
00:34:34:19 - 00:34:59:22
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
If we're just teaching them to force the big blue door in broad daylight where they got all the room and all the tools, then is it really beneficial to them? They got some skill, but they weren't able to adapt to the challenges of the realistic fire ground. So I think that's important for our listeners to hear that just because their department may not allow certain things, that doesn't mean that they're done and there never will be a chance.
00:35:00:05 - 00:35:26:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
I've visited departments that haven't done live fire training in ten or 15 years, ten or 15 years. So how are we preparing firefighters if the only experience they are getting is when they get on the truck for the first time? I like to say this and tell me if you agree, would you go to a doctor who's never done surgery on an actual patient, but he's done it in the video game.
00:35:26:23 - 00:35:47:14
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Would you want a police officer protecting your neighborhood who's never actually fired a weapon you know, we have to have some of those skills under stress and it's close to a realistic environment. It's possible. And in my world, thermal imaging, I got to have heat. You don't give me heat, then there's no reason for me to use this camera because the camera works by seeing heat.
00:35:48:02 - 00:36:19:01
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And if I don't have a heat source, a significant one, then I'm just going through the motions. So what you're saying is extremely important. And the other part you talk about bringing in vetted outside agencies that sometimes is a spark. You know, we we've tried for years to bring a nozzle forward and we finally got them in. And you're talking about phenomenal change within our department, in our hose deployment culture with the guys that were involved in that group and the committees and the work they did to get them there and then get to the train the trainer and get the changing our hose and everything.
00:36:19:16 - 00:36:41:04
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
It's been a huge success for us, but we're still not there. But what you said is you bring in someone who's vetted and they share something that may be foreign to your department, but all of a sudden it creates that spark and that individual and then it spreads. That's good stuff. One of the things I wanted to ask you, though, is let's think about the other problem for a minute.
00:36:41:18 - 00:36:58:10
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We know you've got to have realistic fire training to prepare firefighters for the real fire drought. What about all the complaining firefighters do about the restrictions about the textbooks? What could we do to fix that, my friend, instead of fighting on Facebook about.
00:37:01:10 - 00:37:03:09
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
All the fun of Facebook fights?
00:37:03:18 - 00:37:18:18
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Yeah, help me out. What can we do about a particular textbook that has them teaching that you to train, hang on your foot, search practice? What can we do about that problem rather than just complaining about it? Because we're great at complaining? What can we do to fix.
00:37:19:20 - 00:37:58:27
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We have to actually involve ourselves. We have to look at ways to get involved in the publications, to be able to look at what training manuals are if certain published training manuals are not willing to adapt to what's realistic to fill that gap, what can we do to change that? What are the states requirements? If we as a fire service can look at different publications that are trying to get better, that are trying to get the right stuff in there, and initially teach our members the proper way to be able to do it, there has to be a way to do it, but we have to get it.
00:37:59:03 - 00:38:19:14
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We have to get involved, honestly. We have to get off our butts. We have to get off the keyboards. We actually have to put work into it. It's easy to complain, it's easy to gripe, it's easy to do that changes and easy change takes work. So you have to be willing to put the work in if you're not willing to put the work in, why are you wasting your time?
00:38:19:14 - 00:38:40:14
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Why are you wasting everybody's time by just being another voice? It takes commitment it takes the want to make that change, and you have to be able to put the work in. And there's a lot of amazing people in the fire service right now that are putting the work in to try to make change, that are bringing attention to this, that are trying to get things better.
00:38:40:14 - 00:38:58:17
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And I think it is going to make a huge difference in the long run. But you have to be able to put that work in. The biggest complainers that are in the fire service are typically the ones that aren't doing anything, the ones that don't want to change, that don't want to work out. They don't want to put that training in.
00:38:58:28 - 00:39:04:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
They just want the attention. They figure the more noise they make, the more people leave them alone.
00:39:06:09 - 00:39:32:10
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And sometimes you just have to let much spark in. You have to keep working at it, fuel. You let people talk, let people talk about you. But people say bad things. Let them call you whatever they want to do, but be motivated. Let that fuel you. Turn that into a passion theater and be able to put that work in because it's OK to have that target on your back and people talking behind you.
00:39:32:19 - 00:39:49:16
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Every sailboat needs that wind coming up behind them. That's how you move forward. You just leave them in the past, leave them in the dust and you keep moving forward. But you have to be able to put the work in. It's just not going to change overnight because you type some mean thing on a Facebook post or you talk trash about somebody.
00:39:50:08 - 00:39:56:02
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
The only way that you're going to get lasting change is you do an investment and you put the work in OK.
00:39:57:00 - 00:40:15:28
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Well said, my friend. I want everybody to hear what he just said. If you're going to affect change, whether you get involved in a committee when you try to influence the change in a textbook, whether you get involved in a few changes, whatever it is you're involved in, you're going to have a target placed on your back the moment you start to do good.
00:40:16:23 - 00:40:38:25
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
As my friend who used to be one of our best mailmen we ever had, I call him the Apostle Paul of the U.S. Postal Service he said, If you are going to step up and put your head up out of that trench, you're going to get shot at. The devil doesn't come after the complacent or the apathetic. So the minute you do what you're doing, Chris, you're going to have people attack you behind the keyboard where they can't talk to you.
00:40:39:24 - 00:41:09:09
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
You're going to have people talk behind your back, and that's OK. As you said, that means you're heading in the right direction. Leadership without adversity or opposition is nothing more than a title. So you're doing the right thing. And I want other people to be encouraged by that. But know that if you do step up and you do want to change your department for the better or any organization for that matter, you're going to take fire head on and just expect that you don't think it's going to be smooth sailing.
00:41:09:09 - 00:41:40:28
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
I challenge you to study the lives of leaders who have made significant impact to history and what their home life was like. They suffered from depression. They had all kinds of problems. They had friends abandon them or betray them and do things to them. And it can. Firefighters, unfortunately, are the world's worst at cutting our own throats. We'll get in a heated battle over novels, but when it's really the person holding the nozzle that is the problem or the person at the pump, now we're at war.
00:41:40:28 - 00:42:03:21
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Realistically, but we like to blame each other because we believe we're righteous about something without data behind it. And I think what you said is, is important for them to understand is if you're going to effect change in a positive way, it's not going to happen overnight and you are going to have a target on you. So expect it and as my friend Basil says, embrace the target.
00:42:03:21 - 00:42:26:23
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And I think it was published yesterday, a repeat of Paul Collins work where he shows the firefighter holding the target in front of himself. That's what we are at that point. But you're also on target. You're heading towards the right direction. So more than anything. But I'd like for you to close with us these last few minutes and share some some advice to the young and the old.
00:42:26:23 - 00:42:50:28
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So young firefighter getting in. What would you do to help them stay on the right path with realistic fire training and maybe someone who's been on a little while, who's still encouraged and still, you know, they got another ten years left or so. They want to affect change. Give them some words of encouragement. It doesn't have to be a skill, but some things that you feel is helped you or shared with you.
00:42:51:10 - 00:43:25:14
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
The best thing I've ever done for my career in the fire service is join a Falls chapter. The next thing I did was I invested I went to outside trainings being able to network with like minded people that are facing similar, if not the same troubles that you are. You're able to rely on each other. You're able to vent to each other, and you're able to support each other as you go through and you meet and make family, not only other people, other friends, but people that become your family that will last your entire career, past your career.
00:43:25:26 - 00:43:49:23
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And it brings more meaning to the job. It brings you more support. It brings you more ways to be able to effect change because a method that you may be trying to teach, they may have something that worked for them, but it gives you resources being able to network when you go to these events is just as important as the training itself, because you're able to use that the rest of your career.
00:43:50:21 - 00:44:11:20
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And to be able to bring other things back to your department, to be able to help you as you go through stuff, be able to communicate. And these are people that you will talk to on a daily, weekly basis, sometimes more than you talk to some of your own family, but get out of your department, go to outside trainings, go to fools events.
00:44:11:20 - 00:44:33:13
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
They're typically low cost, if not free some of the times. And they support charity. They are focused on the mission. They're focused on the the legacy of the fire service and being able to truly help the citizens we serve. But look for the things and you can do the same thing a lot of conferences are involving families. They're doing stuff for wives.
00:44:33:13 - 00:44:58:04
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
They're doing stuff for kids. Seek them out. Get your family involved in it. If you're working a 2448 schedule, you are away from your family 2912 hours a year at the firehouse. Get them involved in this career. Get them involved in the training. Take them out to an event so they see why you're doing it, why it makes you happy, and what return it does.
00:44:58:11 - 00:45:15:19
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Give them the why, too. You're investing to be able to make sure that you come home at the end of the day that your brothers or sisters are able to come home, but also that somebody is able to see their kid, their mom, their dad, their grandmother, grandpa, another day to be able to make it to another birthday.
00:45:16:08 - 00:45:36:13
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So the way that we do this job is huge. And you have to get outside of your circle. You have to get outside of your comfort zone to be able to grow. You can't sustain when you're in a small fishbowl to be able to grow and to be able to be all that you can be and to live up to the oath and to truly have a great career that you're proud of.
00:45:37:05 - 00:45:46:28
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And that you're able to serve your community. Get outside, look at these training events, involve your family and make it one huge family for you.
00:45:48:29 - 00:46:12:22
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Awesome. The thing I like to add to that you hit on that has been extremely powerful. And I honestly don't know if I've made it this far in my career without it. Was that outside group support when you met those people? I've had the same what I call a men's accountability group on this little app I use on my phone for over ten years now called the Firehouse Kitchen Table.
00:46:13:02 - 00:46:34:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And they're all guys I met from training and we had the same problems, the same passions, the same encouragements. And it's everything from a fire chief all the way down to a firefighter rank. And we all talk like schoolgirls every day. It's like a virtual peer support group, and it's been phenomenal. We pray for each other, we support each other.
00:46:34:06 - 00:46:53:08
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We share ideas. As you said, we don't know what to do. We ask each other, it's been awesome. I call my informal board of directors, if you will. I highly encourage what Chris said for you to do to if you want to have a long and healthy career, you got to get outside of your fence, so to speak.
00:46:53:29 - 00:47:19:05
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Friend and mentor of mine, Captain Mark Cox, who retired from our department, said, and you to know why I got good at elevator rescue. I said, Sure. He said Our departments never offered elevator training he said, I went to people who did this every day and paid my own money to learn from them because I work in the uptown area where people get stuck in elevators all the time, and it's expected of me to know how to rescue them.
00:47:20:01 - 00:47:41:02
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So I invested in that and it's paid off. I thought that was wise. He didn't wait on his department to provide a training or a skillset that he needed. He said, I need this. I need to go get it. And it paid off. And that's what you're doing. You're offering something that there's a gap and firefighters see that gap.
00:47:41:02 - 00:48:00:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And the thing that you also said that I'd like for you to talk about a little bit more is I don't think too many people understand the cost involved. And I'm not talking just financial. You work full time you have a family. The hours that are invested in this are far greater than any paycheck or anything else that people think.
00:48:00:27 - 00:48:20:06
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
We get out a lot of work and I don't know this personally from working 80 or 90 hours a week. Tell me a little bit about when you started and you were putting all this time in. Was there some obstacles, some things that kind of slowed you down or made you want to stop in that process and those success stories, how that kept you going?
00:48:20:21 - 00:48:23:17
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And what was that like at home during that process?
00:48:24:27 - 00:48:51:20
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
No, absolutely. I mean you're working at 2448 schedule. We were average 56 hours a week at work. That's not including overtime, sometimes selective, sometimes not selective, and it's mandatory that you have to work. And then being able to run the business side of stuff, the paperwork, paying the bills, the insurance, everything that people don't see, that is huge costs that go into it.
00:48:52:11 - 00:49:14:18
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
But my family can be asleep and I may be up till midnight, 1:00, just doing paperwork, being able to keep everything in line, paying the bills, looking and making sure that everything is planned out and ready. Because I still have a wife, I still have two kids, one of them's two years old and they don't understand it's that extra time commitment.
00:49:14:18 - 00:49:43:05
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
They already know that you're gone every third day, sometimes holidays, sometimes they're holidays, and it can be extremely difficult. I mean, you already missed you missed birthdays. Sometimes you can miss special moments. You can miss the first time they talk, they say a new word new foods that they try in important life moments because there is an obligation to the job to be able to pay the bills, have the health insurance and everything else.
00:49:43:24 - 00:50:11:07
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
And it's the same thing when you travel, you miss a lot. You miss those things. You miss you hear sound of a crying kid and it makes you think of yours. Other things that people don't see, the weight that that puts on people, the toll that it takes, and it can affect your home life. It can affect your relationships if you aren't open with everything, if you don't put work and everything in commit into that as well and be able to understand.
00:50:11:07 - 00:50:31:16
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
That's why our trainings are all family friendly. Our instructors can bring their wives, girlfriends, kids, students can bring their wives, they can bring their kids out and they can be a part of it. And we try to do things to encourage them to be out there. We make it fun for them, and we want that to be a family event.
00:50:32:06 - 00:50:55:17
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
It's extremely important to us, just like our engine and truck academy that we just had. We're able to capture some great pictures of a couple of our instructors getting their kids out there and letting them see what they're doing, why they're doing, and to be able to get them involved with it. We make it a family event and it brings that gap a little bit more close together because we're able to involve them.
00:50:55:17 - 00:51:17:02
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We're able to turn this into a big family with our company. We did an instructor dinner we everybody that's involved, we went out and our families have a Christmas dinner together and we're wanting to do more barbecues, stuff like that, to be able to keep us more involved, more talking to each other, and to make it one big family.
00:51:17:02 - 00:51:55:07
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So it's just not like another job because the amount of time that goes into prepping a class is astronomical. Sometimes we spent weeks prepping some of our live fire classes, being able to go do build outs in the acquired structures to make sure everything is safe, that it meets the 14th three requirements that it meets. Beyond that, to make sure that we keep everybody safe while giving them the best environment conditions that we can while trying to get it ready for 20, 30, 40 students along with all the tools, the equipment, the logistic work that go into it.
00:51:56:12 - 00:52:30:16
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So a lot of people don't understand the time commitment, the strain that it puts on your family, sometimes your marriage and the kids that are sometimes too young to be able to fully understand everything that's going on. And they just think that some classes or big parties and everything else and it's a huge amount of stress. I mean, most of our training weekends, yeah, I'm able to see friends, I'm able to see people that I love to hang out with, but I'm usually up four or 5 hours before the training starts.
00:52:31:02 - 00:52:42:08
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
I'm there after the training goes over, and it is stressful the entire time because you have a lot of people's safety and well-being that your response for well said.
00:52:42:14 - 00:53:04:05
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to pay attention to what he just shared with you. That is realistic fire training. It's realistic because he just shared with you the amount of work it takes to create something like that and the cost involved. Yeah, it's huge financial, but you said I don't I miss this with my children. I miss this with my wife.
00:53:04:13 - 00:53:28:15
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And then when you're at the event, it's not a big party. It's work, it's a joy to do. But that's realistic. That's what firefighters need to hear because I'll bet you, Chris, there's a lot of people listening and I'm going to start my own training company. Let me tell you what it cost you, because there is a huge benefit, huge reward, but there is also a cost and your family needs to be bought into it.
00:53:28:15 - 00:53:48:00
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So I'm extremely proud to hear that you make it a family event, like my family travels with me as much as possible. That's the reason we bought that giant van we have so they can go with me. And it's not always the case, as you know. It can't always you know, they have events and family events that sometimes, you know, take precedence and over me playing fire instructor.
00:53:48:00 - 00:54:13:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So I'm proud to hear that you are actually putting them first. As we talk about so much in the fire service message, we hear put them first. Well, who is the them? That should be first, really? And that is your family. So God bless you. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. And I wanted people to hear that before we actually moved into the skills because everybody sees the skills, they see the awesome photos.
00:54:14:09 - 00:54:34:26
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
But they like you said, they don't know that you got up at 4 a.m. for an 80 8:00 class. They don't know at 5:00 when everybody's done, you're still there for nine, 10:00. So that's something that people need to hear because the Facebook version of training in the snapshot that they see is not even close to the amount of work and effort that's put into it.
00:54:34:26 - 00:54:37:19
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So thank you for sharing that love.
00:54:37:19 - 00:54:58:25
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
No problem. It in Steph playing, it's more than a snapshot. I mean, just this weekend we were down in Kentucky teaching and we got down there the day before the class and we were hitting up thrift stores, multiple thrift stores throughout the entire city, shopping for stuff to be able to furnish their training facility to make it realistic.
00:54:59:23 - 00:55:19:27
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Then getting up at five in the morning to be able to go out there and prep it before the students even arrived. So they weren't seeing any of that stuff to be able to go home. They're back to the hotel after a long day to shower, to eat, to stay up till ten, 11:00, doing paperwork and catching up on the daily responsibilities just to do it all over again the next day.
00:55:21:02 - 00:55:39:13
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
You don't do all that if you don't love it, number one. But number two, you don't do that without a strong support system. So anyone listening to this, make sure they understand you have to have a strong support system from your family first before you make such a commitment. Because if you don't, you'll find yourself coming home to an empty house one day.
00:55:39:13 - 00:55:59:00
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
So keep up the good work, Chris, in that respect and putting your family first. So, so what we want to do here at the NSA how do I find citizen first via training? What classes do you offer so I can bridge that gap and help them out? As far as your contact information, do you have anything coming up that you'd like to share?
00:55:59:15 - 00:56:28:03
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on the website. My cell phone is pretty much on everything in any communication that goes through the website, email, Instagram, Facebook, it all goes to me. So you're all talking to one person. So anybody can reach out, ask questions. Our upcoming class schedule is on our website as well. We're always looking to be able to travel, to go other places, to be able to hang out with new people and to be able to spread the passion on the job.
00:56:28:25 - 00:56:48:15
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
So anybody that would like a class, please reach out. We'd love to come and be able to socialize with you. Guys, break bread and be able to hang out, though. We learn everywhere we go. So it's being able to gain that knowledge ourselves. So we're lifelong students of the craft. For all humble, you won't have any yelling at any of our classes.
00:56:48:15 - 00:56:51:09
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
It's all about making each other better.
00:56:52:09 - 00:57:14:11
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Bravo, sir. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your commitment. And especially thank you for what you do with supporting firefighters in need, whether it's getting them training or helping them. After a tragic loss. I've seen what you do with that. And please, I'd encourage people to follow you and what you're doing, because when people think there's not, there's nothing they can do to help someone, there's always something.
00:57:14:23 - 00:57:44:00
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
And there's always good people like you leading the charge to raise money or do support services for those people. So keep up the good work and keep keep your heart in your head and point in the right direction. And I pray that you and your family continue on that same path as one family, one mission, and encourage other firefighters to understand that in order to put citizens first, you put your family first and follow good people like Chris in what he's doing, and you put people like that in your circle.
00:57:44:20 - 00:58:04:29
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Good people rub off on you and bring you up. Bad people drag you down. So keep good people in your circle and you'll do well so thank you for your time and your passion, your dedication, and I appreciate it more. You know, good gracious, your schedule's crazy. So thank you for all this. And we look forward to sharing this with our listeners.
00:58:05:05 - 00:58:06:14
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
You have a great day, sir. Thank you.
00:58:07:09 - 00:58:08:08
Lieutenant Chris Kessinger
Thank you for having me.
00:58:09:03 - 00:58:27:24
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
.com for joining us on this episode of Rapid Fire. If you enjoyed today's topic and want to learn more, head over to firedex.com/rapidfire. And as a token of our appreciation to all of you tuning in, we offer 10% off our E store when you use coupon code, RAPIDFIRE all caps at firedex.com/shop.
00:58:28:06 - 00:58:32:03
Battalion Chief Andy Starnes
Tune in next time as we continue our efforts to make firefighting a little bit safer.